Seesaw US Election Sees Al Gore Concede Defeat, Then Renege

HOST: Valerie Pringle

GUEST: William Daley, Gore Campaign Manager [video excerpt]; Gil Troy, Presidential Historian, McGill University; Jonathan Mann, News Anchor, CNN International

DALEY [on tape]: This race is simply too close to call. And until the results, the recount is concluded and the results in Florida become official, our campaign continues. [applause]

PRINGLE: That's Gore campaign chair Bill Daley speaking in the middle of the night. Gore had been waiting in the wings to make a concession speech and then it was, "Whoa, let's hold on" -- which is the situation now as the race hinges on whether or not Bush takes Florida or Gore does. Whoever wins Florida -- they're going to have a recount, the results will be in probably later today -- will win the White House.

And with us to talk about the election race so far -- also we are going to focus on what's going to be the result in terms of Canada: Jonathan Mann who's a Canadian and an anchor with CNN International. He joins us from Atlanta. In Montreal: presidential historian Gil Troy, who has been on this show many times before.

Good morning, gentlemen.

TROY: Good morning.

MANN: Good morning, Valerie.

PRINGLE: Gil, what do you think when you look at this?

TROY: Well, what a great day it is for democracy because we really see the importance of every single individual vote. We see the importance of allowing the people to have the power.

And I want to reassure Canadians that I don't think either Gore or Bush will make all that much of a difference for us.

PRINGLE: It's a great civics lesson, I suppose, which is what a lot of the networks were starting to get into that lecture last night. But Jonathan, I don't know, is it a terrifically good and healthy thing to come down to such a big decision being made by, you know, a thousand, a handful of voters out of millions?

MANN: And in fact they could all be retired Canadians, when you think about it. All the people who move to Florida --

PRINGLE: The snowbirds! [laughter]

MANN: -- may be deciding who the next man in the White House is. It is unclear that anyone is to be helped by this. The United States has already been plagued by what is called gridlock. Now it comes down to two leaders fighting over every last vote. Whoever emerges is going to have a compromised mandated that could well end up in court before this is all done. Remember, this is the United States and people sue here. The Attorney-General of Florida was already saying that there could very well be legal suits. Is this a good thing? I don't think either side would regard it that way.

PRINGLE: Gil, would you have a sense that even if it's one vote it's a victory and we'll forget the messiness and a month from now the winner is the winner and they've got the title "President" and they drive on? Or does it have a stink to it?

TROY: There is a magic to the presidency and there is also a constitutional conservatism on the part of the American people that I think will kick in. There are many apocryphal stories about person who was running a campaign and forgot to vote at the last- minute and he lost by that one vote. And the message is that every single vote counts.

And I think that just as in 1980 when Ronald Reagan won just barely, but over the months of presidential transition -- because remember, until January 20 Bill Clinton is the President of the United States -- during those months of presidential transition the magic kicks in, there'll be a honeymoon, and maybe, just maybe, either George Bush or Al Gore will be able to forge a mandate and lead.

PRINGLE: Jonathan, there is some early reporting of irregularities of voting in Florida, about people being confused by the large-type ballot that they had, and ended up voting for Buchanan instead of Gore whom they may have intended to vote for. This is what they were saying in the exit polls. Will this, do you think, become an issue?

MANN: It already is. The Attorney-General of the State of Florida has already been quoted -- I saw him on television just a short time ago -- saying that he has heard these reports, that he considers them troubling. And whatever his opinions, they are the kind of thing that he sees as fodder for court challenge. So, you remember the O.J. Simpson case? Things end up in court here and stay there. These are two sides with a lot at stake.

PRINGLE: [laughs] You've been in the States too long, Jonathan. You are imbued with this.

What did you think of the coverage in terms of, you know, we called Florida early on for Gore, then flip-flopped that. They called Bush the winner, he excepted congratulations from foreign dignitaries and even a concession speech from Gore before that was reversed.

MANN: I think a lot of people are embarrassed. People here at CNN I know are embarrassed. But imagine if you are Al Gore and you called George Bush to offer your congratulations.

This is an extraordinary election. No one has ever seen anything like this. So I think that people in New York and people here at CNN Center feel silly. And you can bet that in Austin and in Nashville people feel silly because of the last-minute uncertainty.

But also these two sides spent at the very least 200 to 300 million dollars trying to win this election -- 200 million, 300 million dollars. And it's coming down to a few hundred votes.

PRINGLE: Well, there was one Senate seat in New Jersey, eh, where Corzine spent, what, 50-60 million of his own dollars to win that?

MANN: Sixty million dollars to win a New Jersey Senate seat. And there is a dead man in the US Senate right now. Mel Carnahan, the former governor of Missouri, was elected to the Senate. It has been a strange election.

PRINGLE: Gil, do you think as Americans look at the system they set up with popular vote and electoral college votes or whatever, thinking they had outsmarted every kind of way it could be subverted and all the checks and balances were there, that maybe it's not working for them?

TROY: I think it will be a two- or three-week story with problems in the electoral college and how it's not representative. But at the end of the day Americans understand the electoral system and they except the electoral system. And certainly the two candidates do. George Bush and Al Gore each ran their campaign based on the strategic importance of California, of Florida, of New York.

And also at the end of the day, to be a little cynical, when it comes time to re-evaluate the Constitution the big states like California, like New York, like Florida are not going to want a change in the electoral college because it works for them.

PRINGLE: Do you see any spin-over or flip-out into our election campaign, at all, Gil?

TROY: Well, it will be interesting. I think one of the things it may do is that it may energize the campaign because I think we've seen again the importance of the vote, the importance of the campaign. I think also to the extent that George Bush wins, even if he ekes out a small margin of victory, it will be seen as a bit of a boost for Stockwell day. And to the extent that Al Gore wins it will be a step in the right direction for Jean Chretien and the third-way politics that Bill Clinton helped pioneer.

PRINGLE: And Jonathan Mann, the idea is that it just comes down to the wire now, that they go back and recount those Floridian votes? And a win is a win and even if Nader took a small number of them, that's life?

MANN: I'm going to respectfully disagree with our historian in Montreal. And no disrespect to him -- he knows history -- but this may be history in fact. This may be a long, drawn-out, ugly battle or it could be over very fast. This is a crazy country, this has been a crazy election. This could be a few crazy hours, there could be a few crazy weeks ahead before this is decided.

TROY: By contrast, in 1876 when there was a division between Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden it was just after the Civil War and that's when you really had the country going crazy. I think that we are a more stable country now and while I think there will be a lot of momentary hysteria I think in the end the constitutional conservatism of the American people will carry the day.

PRINGLE: Thank you both.

MANN: And you can bet that this will completely put to an end the small and probably shrinking number of Canadians who think that the electoral college would be great thing for Canada. [laughter]

PRINGLE: Thanks, Jonathan. And thank you, Gil.

TROY: Thank you.